Michael "Venom" Page
👤 PersonPodcast Appearances
most of the combat sports in terms of kickboxing the full contact side of things is more to do with the there's a fixation on power knocking people out whereas our element is just the speed element yeah it's getting in and getting out yeah get in touch like you said the tag tag kind of feel fencing similar kind of footwork and yeah just not many people had decided to cross over to any kind of full contact world really
I was like, he's a striker.
Everything else I didn't really care for.
I was a typical fan.
Like, when they got on the floor, I was like... Stand up.
Stand them up.
So, I've never been to a show, anything, but...
he's a guy that I like watching and I made a decision that I want to do it.
Cool.
Started in London Shoot Fighters and for some reason, the guys there, I don't know, because I've had good coaching in my upbringing, so I feel like I can hear sense.
When I've gone to a place, I'm hearing how they're coaching and what they're saying and I'm like, it just makes sense to me.
I was like, cool, I'm going to start here.
I still want to go to America, but I'll start here for now and then just see where it goes.
And I just fell in love with the place.
Was that the first time you did any grappling at all?
Any grappling at all.
Wow.
Didn't do... All I was doing every day was applauding people because I was tapping every two seconds.
Every two seconds.
It's frustrating, right?
But I loved it, though.
Oh.
Well, you have a good mindset.
Yeah, it was weird.
Like, I kind of enjoyed the fact that, like, I'm looking at this guy, like, if I saw you on the street, in my head, I'm destroying you.
Yeah.
But this guy just twisted me up into a pretzel.
It's a humiliating feeling.
Oh, so humiliating.
But, again, I crave...
If I go back to the point side, from about, like, you met my brother outside.
Him, he's the oldest of my siblings.
Sorry, of the boys.
My sister's the oldest, then it's my brother.
I've got two other brothers, then me.
And at the time, we were fighting around, but they were winning everything.
I used to get my ass kicked everywhere we went.
And this is every single weekend.
like he was for me he was the more talented one but i mean like every single weekend we're driving to birmingham to manchester to scotland we did trips everywhere like my dad started the gym and he was going around everywhere and every weekend there's like three hours that way four hours this way coming back and i'm just kind of boss lip and they're just the medals are just like bling
like they got all the medals and they're talking about how they spin kick some guy and they did this and I'm just like yeah yeah cool cool story and I got destroyed for four or five years and
When I got to a qualifiers in Birmingham, it was an IASCA qualifiers and I managed to win that, which that in itself was success for me.
I'm like, oh man, I qualified to go to the world championships.
I've already done well.
Everyone else, they were supposed to do it.
They're good enough to have the expectation of themselves.
So then I get to the world championships and the way they seed fighters in the US was very different to the UK at the time.
So I had one fight, another fight, another fight and I'm winning.
And I'm like happy.
I'm like, I must be in like the finals already.
And then they're like, okay, bring the Cedars fighters in.
and he had the likes of Wonderboy Thompson.
And then it's like a shitload of fighters join your mat.
And I'm like, oh.
My dad would tell me, he's like, yeah, I think you're in the semis.
I think you're in the quarters.
And then he was like, bro, just keep fighting.
He couldn't work out.
I don't know.
Seriously.
I genuinely don't remember.
I just remember just feeling tired and I didn't understand why this was still going on because in the competitions, three, four fights, you're in a final.
Right.
And I was at least 10 fights deep and still felt like I was fighting.
All in a day?
In a day.
Wow.
So there's a... Again, the IASCA World Champ is in Orlando, Florida.
And it was, at the time, the biggest points kickboxing competition.
So there's thousands and thousands of competitors, kids, adults, doing forms, doing, you know, katters and all this stuff.
And then you had the points fighting, the light contact fighting, and that was it.
Um...
And yeah, it just, all day.
And then it literally got to this like, okay, I won a fight and the guy was like, okay, you're in the final next.
The referee said that to me and I was like, oh, I can't believe I'm in the final.
And this guy was very good.
I can't remember his name.
He was young.
I think he was like 12 or 11 at the time.
And I won the fight.
I just clapped to my back.
I was just like, oh, my God.
Everyone ran in there because, again, nobody expected that of me.
And I remember going in there.
The trophy itself was six feet tall.
And in my head, I was like, I just want one in my house.
And I managed to win that.
But something...
that competition clicked.
So all the times I was getting beaten up, all the competitions I was getting destroyed at, and it wasn't even like close, I was getting destroyed.
I won this competition and I went back home and every person I used to get destroyed by, I was smoking them.
Like something was different.
Instantaneously.
There was a weird shift that just went click,
And all the kicks that I'd walk into face first, I was like, oh, actually I can do this.
I was like.
Wow, you entered into the matrix.
I literally, to the point where, so when I went back home, I was like 12.
And for the year of that circuit, I didn't lose a fight.
And this is from getting whooped.
And I'm fighting all the same guys that I grew up with.
And they must have been like, what the hell?
Yeah, what the hell's going on here?
Then when I was 13, I asked my dad, I was like, can I please fight in the seniors?
And the seniors are 18 plus.
And he was like, and he said it to me, he said it to me later on.
He was like, as a coach, I knew you could.
As your dad, I was like, hell no.
And I begged him, like every competition we got, I was like, please can I fight the seniors, please.
And there was a big British championship competition.
And I begged, I was like, please.
He was like, you can do this one.
again i don't think he remember these guys are 18 plus all different sizes as well i don't think he knew i'd do well but not as well as he i did so i won the my senior division wow for my weight um and like i said these are big men but the problem is whoever when you win in this competition specifically when you win your section you go into the grand championships
And I'm like, dad, you gotta let me go.
He's like, no, this is different now because they're the winners of their division.
That was your weight division.
Now these guys are the winners of their own weight.
You can't do this.
I begged him.
And I beat everybody and got to the final.
And the final was really, really close.
And I felt like I got robbed.
And even my dad was like, he could never tell me no after that.
Because I destroyed some of the best fighters in the UK at the time.
I would say one thing obviously I hated losing
as anybody would, especially as a kid.
We also, and I think as all of us, we wasn't allowed.
So a lot of the kids would fight first and then the seniors would fight.
But because we all traveled down together, we stayed the whole competition until the seniors were finished so we can drive back.
A lot of the other kids were messing around when obviously, like there's guys that I've spent, I've known since I was eight years old that I'm still good friends with now because we were the kids like playing with each other afterwards, like just being all cool.
But my dad was like, no, no, no, you represent me.
You sit down and watch.
So as much as we could play a little bit when he wasn't looking, but we had to try and get back to the mat to make sure we were watching people.
And I feel like I'm a visual learner, and I feel like that helped me become that visual learner.
As much as I was getting my ass kicked, I was also spending time watching amazing athletes at the time.
And I think even more so when you're younger.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, when you're a little kid.
My first competition I was five years old.
So that is just many years again being up.
yeah well funny you say that i that's where my name came from so venom came from when i was nine and the only kids that was in my dad's class at the time mainly a few others because at the time we did it was basically one class he didn't really separate the kids and adults it's just one class so you're i'm trying my best throwing everything in to hit adults
I'm not moving, but I'm trying my best to just get some kind of reaction.
And then when I started hitting people my own size, even though I was losing, because obviously I was tall for my age as well.
So I was fighting kids slightly more naturally developed than me.
But I had a whack on me.
That's a great way to put it.
You know what I mean?
Even though I wasn't beating these guys, these guys were just way too fast for me.
But when I hit them, they felt it.
And it was one of my... Again, Marvin was literally just like, you got some venom in you, man.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And we was very into, like, kung fu movies back in the day.
And I was very... Creative mind.
Like, I loved just...
even with my martial arts I learned a jab like this and now I have to add something I can't do things conventional I've never never liked to do it if there's a everyone's walking that way like I want to see what's over there like I just I don't know what is wrong I don't know what's wrong with me but or what's right with you or what's right with me but I just got that like I was curious and creative
And so there's a film called The Five Deadly Venoms, like old school, old school kung fu classic.
And he would be like, yeah, Five Deadly Venoms, let's make a move for each thing.
Because he'd be like Scorpion or Toad.
And I would make up weird moves and try to add it in.
And that was always my thing.
I'd see something in the movies and I'm like, I'm going to try it in there.
This is all while I'm still getting beaten up, by the way, as well.
But that never left me.
So even when I started...
beating all these people now, I'm doing it with the style and flair of like, what more can I do?
You know what I mean?
It's weird, though.
It's a blessing and a curse.
blessing obviously being able being having the advantages of a fight but sparring headache earlier a lot of people wanted to kind of like let me see what this is about then word spreads quite quickly and i struggle with sparring i think starting to come back now people are a bit more willing
But I struggled with sparring.
You just couldn't get sparring.
Couldn't get sparring.
And I kind of see it from other people's point of view.
It's like, well, I'm not going to fight anybody like that.
So why?
why am I coming over here?
Yeah, but if you saw that, if you, with your mindset, you would be like, I got to figure out what the fuck he's doing.
100%.
And my teammates, they're forced to.
Right.
And a lot of them, they even say like, I'd spar you and then I'd go spar someone else and they feel so slow because when I'm with you, my eyes are like this.
I'm forced to be like ultra alert and then I go and someone's throwing a punch at us.
You can't breathe.
And that's just their energy bar just doing this without anything happening.
No punch.
Which is actually why I'm actually a big fan of Tom Aspinall as well.
Because you don't really see that anywhere full stop, but definitely not in a heavyweight division.
No heavyweight moves like him.
No one moves like him.
He moves like a 185er.
It's crazy.
With that kind of explosive and that power, it's crazy.
Crazy speed.
Yeah.
He hated every moment of it.
A crazy movie.
I'm surprised nobody has jumped on that.
It's nuts.
We'll do it.
I could feel it.
But that's just part of my style is that kind of frustrating people because it's just so unfamiliar.
I've never had the privilege of meeting him, but he just seems very sweet, like a big friendly giant outside of the cage.
For someone like yourself, you would kind of...
Bro, you know what?
Being there, whether you're successful or not, you'd understand what's happening and you'd be calm enough still to be like, okay, I need to know how to figure this out because I've experienced this before.
He's the guy.
So true.
I know.
Drove me nuts.
I think everybody.
And I think that's added to people's frustrations with the Tom Aspinall fight not happening then after as well.
I always, I want to start simply because...
For someone that's never experienced, and because there's few of us in the MMA world, who do you go to to train?
That's true.
I guess what would happen is that fight overshadows many fights.
So if it doesn't happen, even though the fights are amazing still, people are like...
Yeah.
There's very few people that are really good at that.
Yeah.
Of course, yeah, yeah.
And like I said, Wonderboy Thompson.
Yeah.
He, you know, a friend of mine, obviously me and him and, you know, us getting on.
Fucking zero quit.
You have to put him out.
He's a beast.
He's a beast.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's funny you say that, because I don't really have-
structure either so the weight cut I do but that's because I came in with no understanding of weight cut and London Street was like you do this you look so big for 170 how the fuck did you do that how much are you cutting when you went to 170
So even like now, I'm massive now.
And he's even said people have contacted him.
Yeah, about 215.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Because I was going to do it in KG, so yeah.
We never adopted.
So stupid.
It's a way better system.
But yeah, it's...
But I've never struggled to get down, though.
Because, again, I was just told.
Like, oh, yeah, I'm fighting MVP.
I guess it's ignorance as well, but I was just told to do these things.
And it's like, okay, you do it.
No.
you know well it depends on the fight and it depends I'm always training but middleweight maybe you would middleweight yeah middleweight you have taken some short notes yeah for middleweight which was the first one or the second one I did um the last fight uh
Like, I want to train with you.
He's like, I want MVP to win.
Maybe, but I would take short notice fights depending on where I am.
In training.
In training.
But even, I just like to have a rough idea, right?
Even right now, it's like trying to get, and I'm like, I'm bugging people.
So...
Because I've come from a circuit where we fight weekends.
Right.
Every weekend we're somewhere.
It keeps you sharp.
And then...
This is probably the most frustrating thing for me, obviously, starting in Bellator.
And you're training all the time.
And then you have a fight.
And then you're training.
And a lot of my fights, I don't take too much damage.
So I'm like, I'm ready now.
Like, give me a week off and I can come back.
And then it's months and months.
I'm like, who am I fighting?
Who's this?
The problem is you're a hard sell.
I can't help you, bro.
So I'm here.
And that's the thing.
So I'm here.
And I assumed wrongly that when I get to the UFC, that is going to disperse.
Can't do anything.
Everyone's going to be gunning for me.
Like, yeah, I'm going to show everybody that this guy is a can.
He only fought people that weren't his level.
yeah it just it's still the same i think and obviously the more i fight the less people are putting their hands up i think even um whitaker said which i respect to be fair he came out i don't even wait somebody sent me something but he had said like yeah would it be interesting they cannot fight yeah at this point in his career that's just a setback waiting to happen yeah it's not and his style is very similar exactly yeah i'm a massive fan of his as well like i love his obviously he can tie in the the wrestling way better and just yeah i i love his style
Yeah.
I'd swap buddies with him in a second.
Just to get more food.
what you have done for me specifically, I get a lot of criticism, a lot of hate, and especially obviously jumping when I first got into the MMA world.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's the same.
So again, they were the first MMA gym in the UK.
I think like 1995.
97, 97.
I was looking for it today.
Crazy.
So like I said, they've been around.
Yeah, I'm going to tell him.
I'm going to tell him.
They've been around a long time.
And obviously they've fought with every, I think they fought with every major competition.
That's ever been out.
They've done boxing with the likes of David Haye, Derek Chisora now.
Even Dylan White did a kickboxing fight with them.
You know, myself, Lee Murray, John Hathaway.
Even Carlos Romero was the first Czech guy before Yuri to be in the UFC.
That was them guys.
They'd done a lot, but they're the meathead style.
They are like, yeah, everybody will learn.
Anything to produce Lee Murray.
That guy's just an angry man.
He was an angry man.
But at the same time, you needed somebody like, because my coaches are beasts, like you needed that kind of militant,
forced to be able to manage that and cope with that and that's what my coaches they are they like people used to come to our gym and we're just like yeah who's ready and if you don't do it I'll do it myself that's one thing I always respected about them even with the machines that the fitness machines that we had to do the scores are crazy
Like I see people in other gyms posting their scores.
I'm like, is that it?
And they're celebrating it.
And I'm like, we're forced to do this.
The hell is that?
But he'd push you, but he'd also do it himself.
Like he'd jump on a machine.
That's a clammer.
Yeah.
Smoke it.
Fight like five, five back to back and then running and this and that.
And we're doing, we have to do all of it because he's doing it and he's not doing, he hasn't got a fight.
That's the way you lead.
Yeah.
And he led that way.
Especially with killers.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah, that's the problem.
They demand respect.
Yeah.
Fuck off, bitch.
Which is more nowadays.
Like I'm seeing a lot of like, and to be fair, I'm a fan of a lot of these guys, like the fighting nerds.
And again, I'm hearing that they had, I forget, like a data analyst or something.
Yeah, they did.
And he does like this, you know, he studies this.
And I think that's cool.
Like I feel like we should have like add elements of these things as well.
But obviously I've just grown up by this iron, Sharps iron.
Iron sharpens iron.
But that's the thing.
It's the marketability of...
people, this is what I knew I had to get right as well.
And a lot of, I say that to my teammates as well.
I'm like, do you know how you're going to market yourself?
And they're like, no, no.
You know, if I beat people up, it's like, it doesn't always just, unfortunately it should, but it doesn't, that's not what's going to get you.
If I have to, as a,
promotion owner and the person managing everything, I'm either gonna pick you that's beating everybody but nobody cares about or this guy that's pretty decent but everyone's making noise about, gonna pick that guy.
So you need to be able to market yourself.
And I knew that from the jump, and this is before really social media was massive, massive is a thing.
But I said to myself, okay, I need to look in, how am I going to market myself?
Because we don't have that much time like on the mic.
The interviews at the time, I don't feel like people got the recognition.
People just cared about the fight.
They just want to watch the fight.
I didn't care what you said beforehand, unless you're arguing or shouting, you know, there's beef.
Unless you grab that mic and go crazy.
This is why he's on the mic now.
But it was balanced with that.
He's the king.
For me, there's perfect balance.
Like, it wasn't too far.
It was exactly what you wanted.
Exactly what you need to market a fight and to promote himself.
But, again, it's weird, though, because I think authenticity is important when you do that as well, though.
And Conor McGregor kind of is the next person for me that's kind of delivered that.
Oh, 100%.
He took it to a whole other level.
A whole other level.
Every time this guy's on the mic, he'll say one line, and I'm like, T-shirts, easy.
Yeah.
You can't beat this guy.
I'm just like, why did you even open your mouth, bro?
It's so funny, man.
It's so funny.
And you need to be able to do that.
Before I even had my first fight, I spent hours.
I was a big WWE fan.
100%.
And I felt like The Rock, you know, Dwayne Johnson, out of all of them, was the best at marketing himself.
He had the crowd in the palm of his hands, every word that he said.
Yeah.
And I always say that because I've come up against guys and was like, man, he's got a big punch on him.
And it was simple sayings.
And I was like, yeah, I studied this, studied this.
Like, okay.
And even like his stances, he'd come up, like jump on the ropes and put his hand up and just stand there.
Look around.
You know what I mean?
Like he just demanded eyes.
So again, I just came to, okay, what could I do?
So I was like, okay.
know venom you know the snake related to a snake okay like okay yeah let me let me do this okay okay okay that's check i've got something i've got a stance that i can do okay i need a saying okay like what can i say because again i used to listen to people on after fights and i didn't hear anything they said they're like yeah i'm good yeah i beat that guy right here thank you for my sponsors
Who?
Who were your sponsors?
Didn't hear anything.
So I'm like, it has to be like concise.
I have to say specific words and just, I write this stuff down.
But again, I speak to my team.
It's like, bro, what are you guys doing?
You need to do this kind of stuff and understand that this is a part of your game.
You've got five seconds after the fight on the mic.
If that, what are you going to say?
And I agree.
I'm like, yeah, I get it.
What message is going to land?
What is going to make you memorable?
And I do things on my walk-ins as well.
I need people to remember.
They're watching 16 fights on the night.
Why do they remember me?
But power only...
Yes, my style is exciting.
That's cool.
There's this weird guy.
He does some weird stuff with his arms and that is quite cool.
But they're not going to remember my name.
I need other things to keep them coming back.
God, there's this guy in the weigh-ins, he stood above this guy, put his snake hand up, and then, oh, that's the same guy that did the dance, because now you're getting it from different places.
That's the guy that threw the Pokeball.
Oh, what's his name, what's his name?
means something if you land.
The more times you keep hitting them with different things, the more times they're more likely kind of really buy into you.
And I think this is why I was able to create a big enough brand before even touching the UFC.
just because I paid attention to that kind of thing.
And my whole element is not being touched.
It's also fucking with people's heads.
I like it.
It does help.
That helped me as well even in my negotiation.
Yeah.
I personally, and obviously because I've experienced it, for me, the first time I got nervous in an MMA fight was my first fight.
No, my first fight ever.
First fight ever.
And then after that, I was like, oh, yeah, this is the same as when I was fighting the kickboxing.
I'm cool.
I didn't have any, I didn't get the nerves again.
The first time again since then was the first, no, sorry, weird enough, the second fight in the UFC against Ian Gary.
Now, the first fight, I don't know why, I just, I don't know what it was, but I was quite relaxed.
And then the second fight, I was like, oh, it's something, a reality hit me of like, oh, you're in the UFC.
The people are going to demand a certain thing from you.
And you've got a reputation of before of the knockouts, of the celebrations, of the walk-ins, of the this, of the that.
And then I just let that put a weight on me.
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
I can't even explain as to why it was the second fight and not the first one.
And then even the third fight, I still had that kind of, oh, man, I'm not performing the way I want.
And...
I felt like I'm eager to impress.
And I never felt that in Bellator.
But at the UFC, I'm like, I'm trying my best.
Isn't that crazy?
Same thing.
Cage, cameras, people.
Same thing.
Same thing.
But I just, the magnitude of it.
I don't know.
I'm guessing.
It's what we all grew up with.
It's what everyone grows up with.
It's like, this is where, like I said, there was always question marks around my name.
I was jump knees and this and that.
Always question marks around my name still.
But then now I'm here.
It's like, oh, actually, I can... These guys can respect me now.
Actually respect me now because I'm here.
Yes.
And then I was just trying too hard, trying too hard, trying too hard.
The last fight was the first time I was like...
You're back.
I'm back.
And this is why I just keep getting me back in the cage because I swear to you this.
I'm back to where I used to be and how I used to feel.
I want 170.
I can see a clear pathway.
Even after my last fight, I messaged Hunter and I literally like, look, let me fight.
It was Morales.
Yeah.
And I was like, look, another undefeated guy.
Perfect fight.
Like he's a beast.
Like I'm ready.
Let me take him.
Then, and I said, what I could do after that is in like December, I think I said, or no, March next year.
I was like, yeah, give me that for November.
And like March next year,
usually come back to the UK let me fight the winner of um Leon Edwards and Pratas I was like another great fight there yeah and then you've got July card obviously everyone's gonna put their hand up to be on that but I said if you guys want me to be on that again I'll fight for whoever you want and in that top range pick I don't care who it is pick pick somebody I'll fight them and then I want a title shot or you give me the title there like yeah but I'm like I can see a clear path
But that's the end.
That's obviously that's kind of like part of my personality coming out and the entertaining side of me.
But then also, I think, and obviously I'm managed by Paradigm with Audi, and he said he feels like the Paramount deal, they're having to integrate that now as well.
And a lot obviously added to the criticism that I would get, which because of how I would make my opponents feel in terms of their frustration.
And I'm like, I didn't think about that.
But every time Bellator, because Bellator kept getting new partnerships, it did slow things down a little bit.
Oh, yeah, that would make sense.
Yeah, that doesn't start until January.
But obviously they're sorting out contracts and things from now.
And then they obviously have to try and align the shows.
And I'm guessing, obviously I don't know, but I'm just saying it just feels even slower than before.
And I'm like, that sucks.
Yeah, yeah.
And I'm like, I just want to be back out there.
I don't care.
And this is why I'm happy to take.
I appreciate that, but I'm MVP, man.
Let's go.
Yeah, I'm sure.
And then obviously the antics on top of it.
They know what they're doing.
And they know the names of every submission and this.
It's so true.
So many people, the main term that came with me was like, oh, he's fighting cans.
Very true.
Yep, yep.
Which is, again, I think is something that people don't speak about enough.
Yeah, yeah, and he's beating everybody.
He's beating everything.
Etching away, etching away.
He's fighting cans.
And he's clever.
My whole career was like, he's fighting cans.
He's come, bang!
That was crazy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And there's custom to it.
But I always say to people is I'm just making it seem a lot less difficult than it actually is.
Yeah, go on.
Like you said, it's similar to Michael Chandler again.
Yes.
Just in that rage mode all the time.
All gas, no brakes.
Yeah, true.
True, true.
Changes.
I'm moving forward.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bam, he's coming forward.
Oh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The timing.
That was amazing.
But Pico even stepped right into the elbow.
It made it ten times worse.
Ten times worse.
Ruthless.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's my thing.
The car crash effect when you create those collisions.
Which is, I'm so happy for him.
Me too.
He's a cool guy, man.
I'm so happy for him.
But this is why I tell people, if he had just a little bit of chat,
These guys are super talented fighters.
a little bit of show your personality or something just give me something else you have that no but you know what it is I always say like everyone like Demetrius Johnson for me is one of the greatest of all time all time of all time another underappreciated guy because he's too small yeah but I feel like underappreciated because you can't market him in the exact same way as you'd market like a Conor McGregor or somebody else like that but he's a gamer
I'm just not fighting on the same wavelength and timing as them.
I'm like, shed a light on, there's a massive, massive community of gaming.
That industry is billion dollars deep.
Market this guy because he goes back home and he's just like.
Yeah, he's one of them.
He's one of those guys.
But again, we didn't see, I don't feel like we saw any of that until afterwards when he was kind of like doing his own thing.
Now obviously doing a lot of his YouTube time.
I'm so happy that he's,
you know is getting the recognition it's kind of when he went to one that he started doing more of the gaming stuff online but he no he had been doing it though he had been doing it in the UFC as well yeah yeah but again it's just more I guess they didn't capitalize yeah that's what I mean I think certain people you have to like what is your thing not everybody is just the fighting they have things like things to kind of release like wind down and you know what I mean yeah
As you said, these guys that plod around, they're so used to it.
Find that out.
He's killing everybody anyway.
So how else can we market?
Instead of being like, ah, can't market him.
He doesn't talk.
He doesn't say anything.
There must be something there.
There has to be something else there we could look into.
So when they're fighting other people, it looks very even.
Yeah.
He works out.
Bro, I do it myself.
When he's working out, I'm just waiting for him.
And that's what I mean, though.
You're selling your story with just something so simple.
And when they're fighting somebody that they just can't get their hands on and they're getting frustrated on top of that,
Yeah.
And that's what I'm trying to say.
And that music.
Yeah.
Jungle music behind him.
And you just walk.
Everyone can relate to it.
Oh, yeah.
It's consistent.
So I'm always going to, oh, that's the guy.
Yeah, they do it.
And like I said, because I'm a big wrestling fan, I see it's those moments that everybody will remember and everybody will do.
Oh, beast.
But that's what I'm trying to say.
It's those kind of things that people just don't.
And I'm talking the fighters themselves.
Obviously, I feel the UFC can do their bit as well.
But technically, you're already on the platform that's going to show you to everybody.
So it's the mental side, the physical side.
So then it's your job to figure it out as well.
Exactly.
Maybe you shouldn't have done that.
You've got to take the risk.
If it goes well, it goes well.
Yeah.
And you have a lot of power, so there's consequences.
It goes well.
So, like, as you said about Alex Burr, technically, we wouldn't care if he walked out of that and got knocked out.
We wouldn't give a shit.
But he's a killer.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's consequences.
New to me, you know, I'm just like, okay, let me just be myself, do my thing.
You have a blitz.
So, I mean, understanding that distance control.
Yes.
You know, one thing I actually wanted to do, I actually brought some gifts for you, but one of the things I actually wanted to bring for you was... Don't tell me you brought a piece of his head.
But it's funny, people always used to go on about me and Wonderboy Thompson fighting.
And I'd always say, it won't be as exciting as you think.
For us, me and him...
there'll be moments where we're bouncing, faking, and we'll laugh at each other because we saw what would have happened if one of us went, but the crowd's like, the fuck is going on?
Fight.
The fuck are you guys doing?
Smiling at each other.
They don't get the fight that's going on.
Right.
In the moment, it's not as exciting.
Two pluses don't always give you that plus.
I agree.
The only thing that I find slightly frustrating in that element is...
I don't mind the wrestling.
I think wrestling is a beautiful art and is, like you said, one of the most important arts to dictate where you want the fight to go.
But if you're taking me down,
Try to kill me.
Try to finish the fight.
Don't just take me down and just.
I agree.
I've had people like grabbing my legs and looking at the clock.
Yeah.
He wouldn't let me have that, so I had to leave it.
Fuck that.
Actually, we basically had a poker ball come, a very specific one, and they messed up on delivery.
Yeah, I agree.
It's boring as fuck.
For me, it's not even a boring element of it.
Like, I still enjoyed that aspect.
If I was watching, I only enjoyed that aspect because I know what I'm looking at now.
Like, I'm like, oh, he's got, okay, he's grabbed his wrist there.
Okay, I can see what he's trying to work to.
Okay, no, you didn't get it.
Okay, I'm still in the fight.
Whereas some people, I guess the people, if you don't get into grappling, you're not going to know what's happening other than they're just lying there.
So I get it for them.
But for me still, it's just like the aim of this game
It's for me to beat you.
And I mean, like, knock you out, put you to sleep.
So I'm trying to show you that I am the stronger man as a warrior.
And that's not by holding you.
Right.
That's not by holding you down.
Holding you down to get you to a position to land this elbow and hold you down to get you to land this part.
Yeah, but just to... I completely agree.
But I'm going to get it to you in Vegas.
So when we go over to Vegas, I'm just making sure.
He's still doing that.
Yeah, I agree.
Everybody loves that.
Everybody loves that.
He's talking to you.
I get that to you because, again, it's something that you've spoken about with me, and it's a big part of my history in MMA, just that cyborg fight.
He's creating a space by still pinning you.
He's crushing your legs in between his legs and he's fucking wailing on you.
That I can appreciate all day every day.
It's hard to class you as a world championship fighter.
then okay well let's talk about hamzat then yeah yeah drink a stupid sea is a perfect example of that you got a elite grappler who dominated the fight without very with very little damage yeah in when i dominated it to the point where you're you're in the worst position you could be in in mma you're in a crucifix over and over again every round over and over again
You can't do shit about it.
So do you think that he's worried about him exploding?
First fight goes well, land this crazy kick, go viral, and I get nothing but hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate.
Because in my head, I'm like, the fight ends if I elbow the shit out of you right now.
That I still agree with, though.
As the coach is saying, no, take him down.
But I'm saying once you are in that position.
Yeah, yeah.
The doctors were saying that, what we were hearing back from them, they said he's only ever seen that in a car accident, never in MMA.
Yeah, I had the privilege of going to the gym in Dubai and training alongside him.
And I saw it for myself.
And it's...
Yeah, I was like.
Yeah.
Yeah, there used to be stamps.
Fair, fair, fair.
Yeah, Olivera when he was in his prime.
Yeah, when he was in his prime.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He was the earliest, the first of his time.
Oh, way ahead of his time.
First of his time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
With stand-up.
Yeah, Kroko's head kicks were insane.
Because I think he was...
Someone sent me something where he was supposed to fight again.
That was the nuttiest.
I was going to say, he's kind of like your Ngannou nowadays.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, he's gotten, yeah, Francis' improvement, because in his earlier stages, I was just like, yeah, he's got power, but he's technically like... Francis basically beat Tyson Fury in a boxing match.
And I'm not sure what happened there.
Crazy, right?
I scored it for him, 100%.
They could not let that happen.
He took it more seriously, too.
He likes to switch in.
It's crazy.
But again, this is where the boxing is.
If you don't have that kind of intellect in the boxing, that footwork and foot positioning...
is put your foot on one side, you're gonna get killed.
You put your foot on the other side, you're safe.
You can kind of manage the power and see the punches coming.
But he kept switching stances by just leaving himself in just the wrong positions.
Yeah, he wasn't ready for a guy like Joshua.
He wasn't ready, he wasn't ready.
There was a lot of hype off the Fury fight.
Also, Joshua got to watch him box in the Fury fight and see some patterns.
What made it?
I felt very bad, obviously, at the time as well.
And then he probably got stunned.
He just got stunned and that was it.
He's now working.
You can't take anybody lightly though.
No.
This guy was partying every day.
He did not take it seriously at all.
He got a big respect for Buster Douglas on that one, though.
Oh, my God.
To want to walk in and do that as well.
But then I didn't see him for another two years.
I talk about this all the time.
I've had so many people
Obviously, I've got to see over the years that are talented.
And again, it's the same thing, but can you do it when it counts?
Can you do it when the lights are on?
Can you do it when there's pressure and it means something to you, your friends, your family, money?
Can you still do it?
Boom.
That's when it counts.
But I've seen guys that are... There's a guy, actually, and I always talk about him just because he was super unique.
And weirdly enough, he got to the UFC on a short stint, Galore Bufondo.
I don't know if you ever remember him.
He only had two fights, but he fought Charlie Ward, and I call it Hadouken.
That was just crazy.
He just grabbed him and threw his head into the floor.
Oh, jeez.
And it was a KO.
He actually never got the bonus for that.
I don't know how he didn't, because I've never seen anybody just throw someone's head down.
And the sound that that was.
You need to watch it at some point.
Boom.
There you go.
And if you keep it going and you see how he finishes, look, he's like...
And if you see the finish, this is how athletic this guy was.
Just watch.
Light work.
Just landed a little spider stance.
Yeah, perfect landing.
Now, I had to deal with this every day.
Yeah, and that was nothing.
He's super explosive.
But again, he's a striker.
Very weird striker.
His kicks are like his hands.
He can... For ages, yeah?
I was sparring him one time and me and him, I'm the guy with him.
When he steps in, my eyes do this and I'm like, okay, I have to make sure because a kick will come from anywhere.
And we're sparring and going back and forth and I'm in my element and everything slows down for me and I see his head drop down
And alarm bells are going off and I'm like, he doesn't, he doesn't shoot.
He doesn't go for takedowns.
But I'm feeling alarm bells going on like something's gone wrong.
I don't know why this felt this slow.
Something is wrong.
And I've never done this block in my life.
And I went like this.
x block i've never done this in my life never been taught this but my body said throw your hands he did that and did a cartwheel kick front flip oh gee yeah landed on his foot and axe kicked me if i didn't do that i'd be sitting here in two right now talking to you about the story that i once used to do mma and this guy split me in half
And he's front flip axe kick.
He's done a front flip axe kick.
On his Instagram, I don't know if you'll find it, but on his Instagram, there's clips of him doing it on a bag.
And he literally flips, lands on his foot, hits the bag, and he's just standing.
But he did it.
I've blocked it.
Now, even that alone, because I've now blocked it, you should fall off balance.
He took his foot off and carried on sparring.
Everyone in the gym was like...
He's another person that in the cage, he never showed this stuff.
I've seen him somewhere in a single leg and he's run up the cage and slipped up the single leg and kicked off the cage and landed behind the person.
Always when I talk about this, it sounds like I'm exaggerating.
He used to do stuff that I've never, it's only in games.
And this is why everyone needs to love him.
Yeah.
He was insane, but just never showed it.
Wow.
Is he retired?
Yeah, he teaches and stuff now, but he just...
And it's a shame, man.
He was a fun character.
Like I said, an amazing person to train with because he made me better.
And he's got the few people in the gym that could actually kick me in the head.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wow.
and catch me, because usually I'm good at seeing, I've got good eyes, and he's just, yeah, it was just something else.
I don't know what happened.
But as Alvin said, if you don't do this, you're going to die today.
Yeah, it was different.
Yeah, but again, because he never shoots.
He's a striker.
He'll sprawl and then start doing his jiu-jitsu from there.
Never really shoots.
The thing is, I didn't know.
And he just went like this.
And I'm like, what's going on here?
I don't feel like sprawling.
Something's wrong, but I don't feel like sprawling.
I keep telling everybody, I didn't know what happened because obviously they're like, you celebrated like throwing a poker ball at him afterwards.
Oh, here you go, here you go.
Oh, my God.
He does one and he lands it.
Boom.
Imagine doing that during sparring.
It doesn't make sense.
And I'm talking, he's hitting the bag.
Boom, look.
And I tell people, people feel like, nah, you're talking rubbish.
You can hear that.
And who would see that coming?
I still don't to this day know how I saw it coming, but if he did that, and again, he went into these fights and it would be relatively basic.
I did not know.
He wouldn't show all of this kind of stuff.
Yeah, he'd just tighten up a little bit.
He just wouldn't express himself in the same way.
Did anybody at that time work with a mental coach?
No, I wouldn't.
From our gym, the only person I know did it from our gym was actually Alex Reid.
You thought it was just a knockout.
Yeah, this was a knockout.
But he is a weird character anyway.
Funny guy, lovely guy.
But he used to have like therapists come and do this kind of stuff.
And at the time, I feel like I didn't care for it because he just made it seem lame.
And obviously, because I'm kicking his legs, I'm assuming maybe I broke his nose or... Because I can see he's not out, but he's in pain.
It's just because it was from him.
But I understand more so over my time, the importance of the mental aspect of things as well.
I wish there was some... Again, also, maybe the...
The gym that he's in with us at London Shoot, that's not a thing.
Right.
We beasts.
And the thing is, he still looked amazing up until the fight.
But then having prominent figures like yourself,
It must be something like that.
He'd get to the fight and you'd be like, bro, I can't wait for people to see this.
Right, right.
And he'd get there and you're like, what are you doing, man?
Yeah.
And it was just, it was frustrating because he was still super talented.
He still, you know, he won one and I think he lost the next one and then that was it.
But even his previous fights before that, he's got some exceptional fights.
But just never.
It's only the next day that I found out.
Not what he's capable of doing.
I've never seen what I've seen in the gym.
On stage.
Wow.
Never seen.
And he still got signed to the UFC.
Just because he was still talented.
And obviously somebody saw his talent and was like, yeah, I want that.
And nobody's ever seen what I've seen this guy do.
And all of our teammates are like, if you'd have seen that, everybody would be throwing money at this guy.
But yeah, it was a bad one.
Just make sure he's on the next card.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
That was a bad one.
Yeah, it was a very bad one.
Yeah, you can't explain it really.
This is why I try my best to focus on the element of fun.
Because I feel like when I'm dancing, smiling, laughing, joking, everything slows down and everything's enjoyable.
And the thing is, like I said, I met him...
There's no stress.
And anytime I feel slightly stressed,
you might see me dance, which is interesting because people just think I'm just doing it for the other person, to mock the other person.
And sometimes it's just, ah, just stay chill, man.
You're here, you're here.
Like, you don't need to do anything more than this.
Right.
If I feel like a little bit like, oh, that was a bit, and my mind starts going, no, no, no, no, let's shake it off, get into this, get into your mode again, and then go back to enjoying yourself.
I want to say like two, two and a half years later down the line.
That's my, but I know some people need to be in this angry state and just,
you know, psyched himself into it.
And I don't even need to be angry at my opponent.
And I think that comes from the fact that I used to have to fight my siblings.
It's never, it's not based on anger.
I love them.
Like, but my dad is, he used to say like, yeah, that's not your sibling on the map, but straight afterwards, make sure you pick that person up, make sure they're good.
Yeah.
And again, my brother would beat me up.
My other brother would beat me up.
Obviously this clip's just been going crazy online and so on and so forth.
My sister would beat me up.
Everybody, but I still had love for them.
So I'd never needed anger to thing.
And the fact that my family did this thing and even my nephews and stuff now, we still, they still, it's generational.
It's just something that keeps us all together and we're so close.
it's not based on being angry, just based on learning something, enjoying something, and doing it with people that you love.
That's why I can make it fun.
You're in it.
that constantly have been championing my style, championing the points element of things.
And I just, I felt awkward.
I didn't want to, but I also, he had come over for another MMA show, but with one of his students.
So maybe they're in there just like, just do enough, just do enough.
But one of his students was fighting one of my teammates.
You don't know who you are yet.
I think I get that a lot, though, as in people are always like, he's just naturally talented.
And only when I tell people that I used to get my ass handed to me.
And at the beginning, my coaches were like, oh, do you want to, you know, go on at some point, go and see him and say hello?
Was it older or younger though?
Okay, yeah, because my older sister would still beat me up.
Oh, okay, okay, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
Weird enough, we had to do it.
That's one thing, again, you'd always say, this is not for out here.
This is for in there.
If you've got an issue, verbalize it, and if you still have an issue, we can sort it out in there.
But yeah, I'd be annoyed at my brother.
We'd have fights every now and again, but nothing crazy about it.
It's where you sleep.
I was the wind-up.
Oh, yeah?
But I couldn't fight, so I had to do it some other way.
So you had to talk some shit.
I mean, I'm the wind-up.
That's part of the thing, you know?
I was like, yeah, please.
Both NFL, no?
Yeah.
Like, I'd love to because that's the last time I saw him.
I think even the school system has slowly, over the years, they've slowly taken out certain things that challenges people in a way that gives them that gift of being competitive.
The fight happens and my teammate is known for his leg locks and breaks his student's leg.
Especially in the UK.
I'm not sure about in the States, but in the UK, they changed the rules just after I would have left to not allow to pick teams.
Because, you know... Because then people will feel bad if they get picked last.
I'm like, if you're shit, I'm not picking you.
100%.
Yeah.
And again, I think we...
again over there I'm not sure here but we model mollycoddle like the kids and then they think you surround them in cotton wool and then the real life hits them and they're just like what it's the opposite of Yoel Romero yeah exactly you become a machine it's the opposite it's the opposite of that I think I was talking to my brother as well earlier about how they say I forget the saying it's like tough men create good times good times and the whole cycle of that and it's
It's very true, though.
We're creating too much good time for people, and everybody's complaining about everything.
Oh, God.
100%.
I've been an advocate for ages.
So valuable for you.
For ages I've been saying this.
It's okay to lose.
So the officers are like, do you want to go and see him?
It's okay to lose.
It's actually good for you.
Very good for you.
And you need to learn this kind of stuff.
Like I said, as soon as they're out of your care, they have to experience that anyway.
And I used to do this even when I was teaching.
We're teaching a jab or something.
Teaching a jab and we're doing slipping drills.
And you're jabbing like this.
I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was like, you're not helping anybody by jabbing away from their face because now this guy thinks he's amazing at slipping punches.
Right.
And then we make him spar and he's like...
move your fucking head i'll do what i usually do so i'm like it's better that you hit him in the gym so then when they go out into the real world or they go into a competition and whatever they can actually they're actually good at these drills that i'm giving yes not you're not helping by trying to be helpful yes you don't have to hit hard but be accurate yes get them used to it and slowly speed up yeah and and it
I'll try.
Bro, I say this all the time, but it's exactly the same thing.
I just felt like I needed to.
People need to go through those actual trials and tribulations in certain areas so that then they can be ready for it later on.
Sure.
And I kind of walk into the room.
It's all good for you.
But this is why I feel a lot of people are trying to take shortcuts for everything.
His guy's obviously upset for losing.
Nobody really wants to do the hard work.
It's the Olympic world.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nobody wants to do the hard work.
And I get it if it's really excessive.
You let it get to a certain point.
And it's like, okay, you need at least some help to get to a certain point to then work out.
But you need to work.
He's like getting sorted out by the medics and he's sitting there, just looks at me and I'm like, hey.
Of course you're depressed.
Someone was telling me it's the reptilian mind that looks for dangers, or seeks dangers.
Because we're not in a society that has those dangers.
Our dangers are now...
this person looked at me funny or this person.
Yeah, it's even easier now.
Oh, the haters are getting to me today.
To be fair, it's funny.
The first time, this was still earlier.
So my comments were from YouTube initially.
I had an Instagram, but I didn't really use it like that.
So after my first fight, I was super pumped.
What do you say?
I'm like, because like I said to you, I was so nervous after my first fight.
And I always say, look, if you watch, all of my workouts have been like, yeah, vibes, yeah, yeah.
I'm just happy to be here.
My first fight,
I was like this.
I was dying inside, Joel.
Just like, what?
In my head, literally, I was like, why did I decide to do this?
I was like, why am I here?
I was stressed.
Yeah.
Unlucky.
The whole walk was the most, the longest walk.
And you've never seen me so tense.
And then the second I got in there and the bell rang, I was like.
Oh, same thing.
Okay.
Then I started to feel myself and, you know, the vibe, like my energy started, like the MVP that we obviously come to know now came out.
And that was, for me, that was just like, that was great.
Yeah.
Like, I was just like, hey, he's like shook my hand.
But in terms of, I just lost where I was going.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was the second fight in the UFC overwhelmed me.
Like, I could just feel the energy wasn't right.
That's when I walked out.
The first fight you ever had.
So that was me versus Dishman.
And I just walked out.
And seriously, I just had nothing.
but fear inside me.
And what kind of athlete was he?
It just wasn't the right time.
I'm not sure he's a kickboxer or something.
Didn't see my first fight.
I had like, I think three pull outs before.
But I didn't know when I would get to see him again.
I got to that fight.
Probably like three weeks before.
Three different people.
At that level, it happens all the time.
And I had fights online.
So my coach was like, are you able to take these down?
I'm like, they're randomly filmed from so many random people.
And I haven't again since.
So I wouldn't even know where to begin to find out to try and get them taken down.
So if anybody did research, they would see that I've got
I had like a 720 kick.
So it made sense why people was pulling out.
So, yeah, I just felt it's just one of those things that just felt bad.
This is one of them.
This wasn't even the first time I did it.
Where is it?
Yes.
Is it coming up?
It'll be after this.
Okay, yeah.
Okay, it's going to be.
Yeah, I said just before this, just before this.
Like, how the fuck did he pull that off?
So I understand why people would look at that and be like, no, no.
Not yet.
But this guy stepped in.
And yeah, I felt so bad, negative, going forward, walking in.
But then once I was in there.
But yeah, if you see the walkout.
But even here, I'm super tensed.
Yeah.
It was only until I started bouncing that it was even a thing.
Just my decision.
Like, why did I do that?
I don't know specifically.
Oh, but once you got loose.
Yeah, once I got in there, I was like, oh, cool.
Yeah, yeah.
He was trying to take me down.
Yeah.
He wasn't strong.
So I was like, yeah, I'll just push off.
I was feeling good.
And I think after he felt my strength, he was like, okay.
He kind of stood back.
that's such a problem.
Right?
That's amazing.
You even stared at the crowd.
It's funny when people ask me, why did you stand there?
What if he came back?
I was like, I landed the kick and I stood still and I was thinking he might come back so I could spin the other way and land another kick.
That was the game.
And then when he just, the referee stepped in, I was like, perfect.
this looks good, this looks good.
Okay, that's where I remember I was going.
I went crazy viral for that.
Everyone's like, who is this guy?
And I was, I was like, because of the relief that I had because of how tense I was, I was like, oh my God, that was for me ticking the box that I can actually do this.
I can actually make a career of this because I wasn't sure.
and got home when you jump online like i want it i want to see like i'm seeing a video like crazy thousands of like comments and this and that like okay yeah maybe the next comment maybe the next one nope yeah people don't like me they didn't like you for that video
It is what it is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's such an interest because you've trained with Marius, my coaches, one of my coaches, Marius.
I felt like I had murdered someone's child.
No, 100%.
Yeah, he was amazing, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He nearly hit me with one of those.
He was very famous for his double back kicks.
Oh, my God.
And then every now and again, he would hook it.
He's knocked people out in the points game.
Everyone's seen it.
And I remember, I think it was the first time I fought him.
And I was young, but I had a reputation.
He was the guy like over in America that had a reputation.
And obviously he says to say hello.
And we've collided.
I was like, I don't care who this guy is, man.
I was feeling myself.
I was killing everybody for ages.
I remember faking, like moving, moving, moving around, moving around, faking, faking, got him in the corner.
I was like, oh, perfect.
Boom, blitz.
Same thing.
I was like, something's off.
Boom, did this.
But both, normally the first kick is light.
Both stamps, I was like, shit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He says he's trained with you guys.
Not only was that fast, but that was powerful as well.
And that just got into my head.
It threw me right off.
I think you guys trained for about four years with Eddie Bravo as well.
I didn't want to commit to any of my strikes.
And just from the first moment he let that go, I was just like, yeah.
Dangerous.
Dangerous, dangerous.
Yeah, I've known him for 20 years.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You can't bounce anymore.
But that's the thing.
It's weird because I started to utilize that as a way to win fights.
Weird.
Not obviously taking the leg kicks, but...
only giving you that option.
So everyone's like, yeah, but that's an awkward style.
I was like, yeah, but when I stand in front of you like that,
Yeah.
Crazy, crazy.
You don't think to do a punch because I feel way too far away.
So you're not doing a punch.
The only thing you have is what's in front of you is a kick.
So it's like I got used to timing kicks as you're kicking, collision, going in, or just pulling just off and then putting my foot in slightly deeper.
Crazy.
And then just pulling off and then putting my foot in slightly deeper.
Now I know I can pull this trigger when I'm ready.
And obviously that's a big part of my history now with...
And you're getting more and more demoralized because you're not landing.
You're throwing a kick, you're swinging around.
And there's only one thing available.
And there's only one thing available.
I just appreciate you for that.
So I have to keep pressing that same button.
Them two, the brothers, Alexis and Marius.
Do you think there would be a way to combat that?
Because obviously in boxing, you have to weigh in multiple times now.
Were you at the gym when Lee Murray was?
That's when you're the A side.
No, no, no.
I was just after.
That's kind of crazy.
I agree.
And if I didn't have to weight cut... Because if you don't join in, you're fighting monsters.
No, I agree with that.
But I'm just saying, with the fact that people are weight cutting, when I got to this arena, I'd prefer to just report what I weighed at.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes.
But...
Because everyone's weight cutting, I was like, oh, you have to.
You have to.
Luckily.
But interestingly, though, when I was in, at the time that he was around.
That's the thing.
I actually feel great at middleweight.
We definitely have the size for it.
Yeah, I'm naturally that way.
But it's weird, though, because people's body types, because they are cutting, they're still slightly stocky.
Not necessarily frame-wise as big as me, but they're just slightly stockier.
And obviously, as you say, the guys that want to come in and just go...
It's an advantage if they're going to be that much heavier than me as well.
Moving people.
Even in my last fight, when I got taken down in that last round,
I was still very heavily focused on the points fighting, kickboxing.
Trying to get his cat in the air.
Trying to move him.
I was just like, Jesus.
Cat in the air is huge.
He's a big boy.
I know, I know.
Seeing people just look a mess.
But a friend of mine was training at Shoot and he was like, you need to come and train with these guys.
I can do it.
I don't care to do it.
I can do it.
I just, I agree with you.
You have to do it.
If everybody was like, yeah, okay, let's all just do it at our weights.
Fair, fair, fair.
These guys are serious.
But for me, MMA was just never going to be a thing that I'd ever see myself in.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Can you pee in this?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That makes sense to me.
This is crazy.
Because there's dudes that are out there doing that.
Oh, I know, 100%.
Yeah.
I've always seen it as, I guess, like your average fan back in the day and some fans now, of like, ass brutal, man.
Yeah, the rehydration.
I've seen people cut ridiculous amounts.
And then, yeah, like you said, the way they rehydrate.
That's what you actually weigh.
Right.
And again, I'm a points fighter.
And it depletes the liquid around your brain as well.
So you're taking a shot, so you're not going to take it as well.
Exactly.
Yeah, I agree.
But that's why I get down very close to my weight because on fight week, I'm very low.
Like, I don't see myself being good enough to, or tough enough to fight these guys.
185 is easier, though, so 190.
Yeah, yeah.
I get down to probably about 182, 183.
Not that bad.
Not that bad, and then cut down from there.
Yeah, again, I don't like to overstress myself.
that's insane that's a lot that's insane yeah that's so much weight and what does that do to you yeah i've seen people i can't even remember what fire is in bellator and his he was banging the sauna to get out and his coach was holding the door oh god you need five more minutes oh my god the guy is kicking the door like pumping and he's like yes i'm never doing that
What changed?
I don't ever want to feel like that.
That's so crazy.
So many guys black out.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
He's the lady that fell off the stage, fell off the scales, wasn't it?
Obviously, I had a successful career in the kickboxing, but I...
She stepped back off the scales and then just, her legs just went.
Oh, that's good.
I think sometimes it is the discipline of it.
Yeah, look at him now.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Look at him now.
didn't really go anywhere.
Yeah.
100%.
Same.
Even when you said about having random weight checks, it'd make me consider certain burgers sometimes.
It's like, you're fighting the same people, like the amount of times me and Raymond have fought, and we were like some of the top two guys, like we're both in the competition, like we both walk in the room, everyone was like, oh my God, these guys gonna fight, like we were the guys.
No, of course, of course.
I agree with that.
Okay, good to go.
Good to go.
I literally do a 30 minute jog.
It's like really low with a sauna suit on.
Straight away I take that off, go straight into the sauna, 15 minutes, then wrap, 15 minutes, then wrap and I'm done.
That's actually probably therapeutic.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
It's not...
Yes, I remember this.
Yeah, just fed for ages.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because he gets quite jacked as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's crazy.
That picture right there.
That's what I mean.
He's massive.
Pure flow.
But it's the level changes of the up and down.
You don't know where he's attacking.
It's not linear.
It's not just I'm going here or I'm going here.
I used to love watching his style.
but I'm fighting the same people and it's just like everything, everyone hoping that you're going to lose or your fans are kind of like supporting you.
Nice.
And then I come back to reality, come off a plane, I traveled, I fought all the, you know, the whole week or whatever, won a world title and I've come back home and then,
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
It's a fun watch, though.
nothing I come back home to just me being myself just me being me which I'm okay with but there's no recognition there was no sponsorship I paid to do everything and I loved it
Look at that.
Dropping down.
Head movement.
Oh, my goodness.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Just let me put it back in.
That's crazy to go in there knowing that that's...
That sounds like a bit too much.
I hate doing surgery for anything.
Oh, it was from wrestling.
It sounds like he just went back in, in terms of getting back into training a bit too quickly.
And if I could choose the route again, I'd still do it because I absolutely loved it.
I feel like the rehab can work.
I know, obviously, there's certain things you're going to need surgery for.
But there's a lot of my stuff, I've managed to bring it back.
I don't think he had surgery until after he was done fighting.
But there comes a point, I'm getting older and it comes to a point where I have to, and I'm now starting to, at the time I'm a kid, but now it's getting to the point where I have to work.
I know guys that are like surgery, surgery, surgery, surgery, and it never seems to, I've never, unless I'm forced to, I don't ever really go down a surgery route.
I always try and figure it out a different way.
Like I've had, weird enough, it was both my shoulders, but one was supraspinatus, the other one was rotator cuff, and kind of like some lat injury as well.
but just slowly, to the point where I couldn't do a push-up.
When, in my last couple of, was it Bellator fights?
Yeah, my last few Bellator fights, I couldn't do a push-up.
I could still hit in certain angles, so certain angles I was fine, but I had no strength in that direction.
While you were fighting?
While I was fighting, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, so literally, trying to get that, my arms would just start shaking, I couldn't.
I was doing, I was doing, like, rehab, I was like, as long as I can hit you, I'm fine, like, right?
That's so crazy.
Going into a fight with that kind of a major handicap.
I've had worse.
What's the worst?
And so now it's like, I can't do this forever.
I don't want to say it as an excuse.
But the day before my Ian Gary fight, I couldn't stand on my left foot.
Up to today, I don't understand it.
I had the UFC PI working everything.
They did shock therapy.
They did acupuncture.
But at the same time,
They were doing everything.
And I literally had it.
I had a, if you see the fight, I literally had ankle supports on.
And they said, you're allowed the ankle supports.
You can't really have it taped.
But I had it taped under the ankle support.
But obviously if I couldn't just do one ankle,
I know I want to compete for a living.
It's hard to do both of them.
And yeah, just the day before the fight, I'm not sure if I did anything when I was cutting weight, like twinged it or something, but I don't remember anything distinct happening, but couldn't walk on my foot.
It was my ankle or something.
And they were working on it.
Literally, I was in.
You don't have a single instance where it went?
I don't remember anything.
All of a sudden, it just hurt.
It hurt the night before.
Like when you woke up?
It hurt the night before.
So on the way in, it hurt.
And I was walking around and I was like, it's hurting.
But it didn't feel like anything drastic.
And overnight, it just got worse and worse and worse and worse.
maybe yeah and then literally the next day in the morning we had to go to the PI I was my coach was like bro you can't bounce here now I'm gonna have to pull you flat I was like there's no way I can get pulled from this fight it's not happening I was like it's not happening wow
I just didn't know what, in what.
And I went out there and he's like bouncing.
I'm trying to adjust myself and bounce.
And they did the tape that he was going to use for the fight.
And he said he'll come in and do it again just before the fight.
And yeah, I was just like adjusting, adjusting.
So then I said to myself, okay, cool.
And obviously I had a... Still had a great performance.
Yeah, I had my... So my guy...
uh my videographer uh kishan uh he filmed he was we're doing a documentary so he's filmed all of it as well i was kind of like i'll wait till it comes out as known but not like not even to say as an excuse because i was able to adrenaline just i'm i'm in it now and fight but
But there were certain things I was being cautious of and not wanting to do.
Let me, I need to take a step away from this.
But yeah, it was just irritating.
But that's probably the worst in terms of how close to the fight it was because it's the day before.
But I've had injuries in the build-up and I'm like, as long as I can throw a punch and throw a kick, I'll make it happen.
I know while I'm in this, this will be a distraction.
100%.
I don't want to take anything away from Ankhalaev.
I'd only say no just because towards the fifth round, it looked like Pereira could do some stuff.
It's like, okay, you're actually now landing that calf kick a bit more now.
I'm not going to be able to focus on things because another competition that I'm going to want to win is going to come up and it's going to turn my attention.
It's like, why didn't you start like that?
He's conserving energy.
This is what makes this fight so much more interesting because hopefully he's had the camp he is.
Ankulayev hopefully comes in looking exactly the same way he did that last fight.
Or better.
That's the one.
So I said, look, I'm going to, I said to everyone, I'm retired.
When he catches people with that.
Even when he grazed Jamar Hill.
I still don't get it now.
He grazed him.
You got a hell of a punch.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I thought, let me say it to as many people as possible.
Well, I guess if he was able to get to middleweight...
But also sometimes it makes you lazier as well.
Like, oh, I can do that.
I can eat this.
Yeah.
And then you get close to the time.
Oh, shit.
A bit of work now.
So then it's hard for me to turn back on it.
Again?
Oh, yeah.
Actually, he has.
Yeah, yeah.
But then does... Yeah, fair.
Right?
Yeah, yeah.
But then does he need... You know, does... I always say that the time that Jon Jones took off to get to heavyweight, does he need that kind of time?
So I'm just like, yeah, I'm okay.
Because it takes a while to put on size like that.
And actually, it takes ages.
Not when you're over in Russia.
Fair.
Yeah, I'm retiring now.
Not fine again.
Yeah, this is my last fight.
And I said, cool.
Ah.
Yeah.
I know that.
Yeah.
There's a lot of speculation about that.
I feel so ignorant to that kind of stuff.
Like, I just don't care enough because, like I said, I don't really have a schedule for anything, even the good stuff, like the things you're supposed to be doing.
Started to go around looking at boxing gyms, looking at full contact kickboxing, looking at MMA gyms.
I'm just like, eh, I'll do it.
At all.
I don't take protein shakes at all.
Nothing?
Nothing.
That's crazy.
No, no, no.
Never.
Never been into it.
Multivitamins?
Vitamins, yeah.
But again, I just forget to take them.
Seriously, ADHD mind.
I'm just like...
Yeah.
So I'm going to get my wife to do it soon because she's very into that.
She's very into her fitness and stuff.
She's a Pilates instructor.
She's got her own Pilates app and stuff.
And she's smartly
Well, I don't even know if she even intended it that way, but she kind of blew up over COVID because she set up her app at that time and now everyone's at home.
Oh, perfect timing.
You know what I mean?
It's just perfect timing.
And she just blew up her app called Cloud9 Collective and she does Pilates for Women.
Have you ever done Pilates yourself?
Bro, I did a video with her and got her to train some MMA.
And then she's like, okay, you come and do this for lives.
She killed me.
It is so much.
But I didn't know.
Weird muscles.
Yeah.
But that's what's actually helped with a lot of my, the rehab side.
Because it's those muscles that we bypass.
We go to the big muscles.
Yeah, we want to work these muscles.
And it's all those little ones that are not getting worked.
And those are the ones that are injured.
Stabilizers.
And the first gym I actually went to was in Miami, Coconut Creek American Top Team.
And I didn't know that it was...
a man, I forget his first name, but called something Pilates who started it for men in war to help recover guys in war to get them back out to war.
The strength you can get from anywhere because, like I said, those smaller muscles that help facilitate the bigger muscles.
Go do that.
Okay, I did that, yeah.
It's hot.
And I was like, yeah, I'm going to go to a yoga, a hot yoga.
You know, I was more thinking just, it's nice to kind of get the sweat going and stuff.
I remember the lady, she's like, oh yeah, go to, if you go to that side of the room, it's a bit, it's quite hot.
So, you know, if you're new to it, just go to this side of the room.
And I was like, this woman, whatever, man.
Let me go to that hot side.
And she's like, oh, you know, if you feel, if you ever feel faint at all, you don't have to continue.
Yeah.
Because my sister used to live in that area because I got siblings over in America as well.
You can kind of just sit down.
I was like, what is she talking about?
It's not that hot in here.
Google me, lady.
Bro.
i think like three moves later i slowly like just like moved the mat like i didn't want to go too far but i moved from the hot side of the room to like the middle ish closer to that side and then there was one move i was just stretching and like i literally just got lightheaded i was like shit this is real it's real it's real you see all those little old ladies in there and you think
Oh, this is easy.
It's difficult.
My wife is strong as hell and I'm just like, yes, it has to be from that.
And when I do the session, I did a session with her this morning because she does some great sessions.
When I do sessions with her, she kills it.
And she's...
I have to say she's smart in his, in how she's done it as well.
Cause actually something I didn't know, cause she's on her app.
She's done a cycle sinking specifically for women.
I didn't realize that women have a, obviously I knew women 28 day cycle and men have a 20, a 24 day cycle, um, 24 hours and they have 28 days.
So there's specific times that they should be training, uh,
harder than they shouldn't be training or they should be doing this and should be doing that.
Based on just the time of the cycle of the month.
So came out there and in my head at the time, there's only few people from the UK that was doing anything in MMA.
But again, in my head, I'm like, there's girls that are training our class and they have to train and do everything that we do.
But we don't...
we forget that we're just doing it based on men can kind of just keep going.
Well, women should think about that when they're scheduling fights.
100%.
That should be a thing.
And as I said, she did it for Pilates.
And I looked into it and I was like, oh, there's actually, this is like even down to ice baths.
Great for you.
Not for women though.
Really?
Not all the time.
But if you look into it, so there's specific times it's okay for them, but they shouldn't put their body under that kind of stress in the same way that we can.
Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah.
So there's loads of, when I started looking at certain, there's loads of things that we forget that a lot of times it's done from a male point of view.
Right.
Forgetting that we're just different.
Of course.
Of course.
wow so yeah she's put it on so individuals can actually be like her it was scheduled and say look you're good specifically for you are good to train intensely today or no you need a very relaxed session and these videos that she's got hundreds of videos on a thing that will come up and be like this is for you this was for you this was for you but again it just made me think about the women in mma like you said yeah it's the same thing scheduling even down to for them weight cutting
you know, at a certain time, if you're going for their luteal phase, they're holding weight.
Like, it's just different.
We don't have any of those issues to worry about, but we get them to do the same structure as we would do.
So when I was like, maybe I'm going to try MMA.
That's a very good point.
You know what I mean?
They should be more information about that, even for the female fighters.
I was like, obviously I have to go to America.
Yeah, yeah.
We're just different.
Well, it kind of comes with just the... This is why I feel like I can bounce on my calves for ages, just because of that constant.
And it seems to be a thing now.
I didn't really understand it well enough.
It was just kind of how I trained.
And now... Did you train like that from the beginning?
Yeah, just because of the points fighting style is a lot of that shifting.
And I'm lucky enough to have siblings that live over there.
Martial arts training with plyometrics.
The reason why we did plyometrics...
more so is because we were also doing a lot of our caters we did martial gymnastics so the forms so I had to learn how to do these crazy kicks and stuff in which I would then this is why I would try 720s not because like
So I'm good.
I just randomly decided to just throw it out today.
It's because we were drilling them just for kata though.
So get to America, get to American top team.
And I was like, well, if I can do it for kata, then surely I can find the time to throw it when I'm fighting.
And I would be brave enough to try and attempt these things in the points fighting world.
And yeah, there's a couple of kicks.
I keep telling people, there's a couple of kicks that even for me, I haven't even shown you what I can actually do yet.
I go in there.
But there's a couple of kicks that I know I can land.
And usually it's easier on people that are well-trained.
So usually the better fighter, it's actually easier to hit them
Just because they are very traditional.
They're very well trained.
They have patterns that I can pick up on.
I'm like, ah, you're going to step this way and you're going to do that.
I'm like, this is where I'm going to start.
And I always tell people, I call it attaching strings.
The first minute of the fight, not too much happens for me because I'm faking this, that, that.
Like I've met a couple of the coaches and just kind of just like general chit chat.
But every time I'm faking something, you twitch.
I'm like, ah, this means this.
Yeah, you twitch.
This means this, this.
And I'm just attaching strings to you.
So now I'm moving you.
You just became Pinocchio.
But that, and that's important.
This is why, like you said, all those fakes, but those fakes mean something.
Yes.
You know what I mean?
I'm getting, like you said, I'm getting that information from you.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
He wants that.
If I do this, he wants that.
Okay.
I see it.
Okay.
Perfect.
I didn't tell them who I was or anything.
I try to tell people, though, but yeah.
Just kind of saw the vibe.
Like I said, I pushed out information.
I keep chasing after it and find out.
I haven't really heard too much back.
The facilities are amazing.
That's what I'm saying.
It feels like things are slowly starting to happen.
I'm still waiting.
Yeah, that's being confirmed.
I was like, yeah, this is going to be my new life.
Yeah, I want to get back.
I know I'm big now.
You can make it, though.
I've seen you make it.
I can make it.
I want to get back down.
And you just giant advantages at 170.
Yeah, I want to get back down to 170.
Just because, like I said, I feel like, I think JDM's a great, an amazing fighter.
I just feel stylistically I can beat him.
Very complete.
Yeah, very complete.
I really like his style.
And very smart.
You can tell he's very smart.
Like, as in specific to the opponent, he's like, okay, yeah.
But like I said, that's one of the advantages.
It's like you're not going to have – it's going to be very difficult for you, even as smart as you are, to figure that out.
And then I get back to England and a good friend of mine, Marvin Francis, was like,
Are you sure you like to stand up?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I tell people this all the time.
I make these guys wrestlers, man.
I make all these stand-up guys wrestlers.
And everyone's like, I'm going to strike with you.
I'm a giant fan.
So, again, it's all the social media, Michael Venom page, everything, Instagram.
I don't really do Twitter as much or X, sorry.
My Facebook, YouTube, I'm doing a lot of stuff.
ITM, actually, I'm doing a film company.
I always try to set myself up.
for the next stage.
My creative mind won't stop.
Do you want to make movies?
I'm making movies.
I've already made two short movies.
Wow.
And again, the same.
Just in case, just have a look at some gyms over here.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
That's awesome.
Thank you, thank you.
And I want to get into acting as well.
What are they about?
So the first one was actually about an athlete's mindset.
One thing that I find with films, I think people are lazy watchers nowadays.
They find just explosion, explosion, action, action, action, and crap storyline, but I want storytelling.
Again, and this one is just more about an athlete's mindset.
You don't know.
I did it through the eyes of a runner, just because it's slightly different.
I didn't want to just go down the same lane as MMA.
Did it through the eyes of a runner and just how toxic...
your want and your need to be the best, how it can look like.
And again, I'll go into that one.
Because obviously I've got things to sort out before I can just make the full move.
I'll let people watch that one.
That one is just called Runner.
The next one's called Wait.
And it's kind of about what anxiety can look like from a position of waiting for good news and a position of waiting for bad news and how the parallels work together.
and look almost identical.
So you're literally watching two point of views.
So these two.
So while you're doing that, let's have a look at a couple of gyms.
He's... That's fucking cool if you're doing things like that.
Thank you, man.
That's very cool.
Like I said, I'm a creative mind.
I need to express it in some way.
And I know when I leave, I'm not going to be one of those guys that retire and want to come back.
And we did some research.
If I say I'm done...
We went to a couple of the Gracie gyms, went to a few other gyms that I was around.
And we call it martial artists.
As much as people see sometimes the blood, the knockouts and stuff, it's art.
Like we just watched TJ Dillard's show.
That was art.
That was pure art.
Pure art.
Like people don't appreciate that side of it.
Then I found London Shoot Fighters.
And I'm...
I love to paint pictures, and I'm like, how can I continue painting pictures after this stage of my life?
I'm like, okay, yeah, cool, movies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm in.
Trust me.
We're doing big things.
I believe you.
I believe you.
My camera guy, Kishan Lakhani, it just worked.
The synergies just worked.
I hadn't done any research.
He's directing films like he's done it for 20 years, and he's just unbelievable.
That's awesome.
We're going to do some magical things.
I love hearing stuff like that, I really do.
I really do.
And at this time, I personally wasn't watching MMA at all.
So like I said, I got a gift for you, anyway.
What do you like, red or black?
You can have both if you want.
Just a t-shirt.
And it just represents who we are, hands down.
Martial arts, just guys that do this and everyone mocks all the time.
But it's obviously my brand.
So extra large, large.
Large?
Yeah.
Let me see large here.
Large.
Thank you.
And then I'm also, I got, again, I'm into everything, but I got a beef jerky company.
called snap down snacks for snapping people wrestling snapping them down snap down snacks so snap down or snack down and some snap down thank you very much alright fantastic yes enjoy let me know what you think how do people find that company is it a website yeah just snap down on snap down snacks yeah yeah yeah
The only person I knew... What year is this?
And if you're in the UK next or when you're in the UK next, let me know.
I've got a Mexican restaurant as well, Ixchel.
Wow, man.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Beautiful.
We actually had Kendall Jenner's 818 Tequila featuring in there.
We're going to have Jason Momoa come in end of this month with his vodka, Miele vodka.
It's already been...
So...
Moving and shaking.
We're everywhere.
I'd have been, what, 24?
So what's that about?
It's over 12, 13 years back.
And I was trying to say that only guys in the UK would have been... Brad Pickett was fighting... Solid Fighter.
Solid Fighter.
Michael Bisping was fighting.
And nobody had achieved anything of big quality from there.
Everything was in America.
Yeah.
Was Bisping still living in England or had he moved to America?
I think he was still in England.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But again, I was only learning it as I got more into it.
But initially I just thought, I made the decision without actually researching anything, which is very much like me.
I'll just...
Jumping head first.
Yeah, I always tell people that, like...
I'll figure it out afterwards.
So I literally, I said to myself, okay, cool.
I've got to London shoot fighters.
And the only person I knew was Chuck Liddell.
That's I've actually seen.
And I just was like, this guy was just knocking people out.
I was like, that's, I could relate to that.